<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Modern idioms in fantasy fiction</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.pensandswords.com/2008/09/30/modern-idioms-in-fantasy-fiction/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.pensandswords.com/2008/09/30/modern-idioms-in-fantasy-fiction/</link>
	<description>Talking shop with fantasy fiction author Kameron M. Franklin</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2011 14:15:51 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.pensandswords.com/2008/09/30/modern-idioms-in-fantasy-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-53720</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensandswords.com/?p=523#comment-53720</guid>
		<description>Talk about jumping in after the pool is drained... 

I have the same thoughts, Kameron. Two examples that jump into my head are Wen Spencer&#039;s use of vulgarity (a few f*bombs and s**ts) in her &quot;Pittsburgh in another realm&quot; fantasy concept. Here, the &quot;Pittsburghers&quot; use profanity while the elves do not. The other is George R. R. Martin&#039;s overuse of f*bombs between two of his characters in a fantasy world setting.

Martin&#039;s use in the fourth book in his &lt;i&gt;Game of Thrones&lt;/i&gt; series really bugged me (but not in a puritan sense), while Wen&#039;s in her &lt;i&gt;Tinker&lt;/i&gt; duology seemed to fit right into her world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Talk about jumping in after the pool is drained&#8230; </p>
<p>I have the same thoughts, Kameron. Two examples that jump into my head are Wen Spencer&#8217;s use of vulgarity (a few f*bombs and s**ts) in her &#8220;Pittsburgh in another realm&#8221; fantasy concept. Here, the &#8220;Pittsburghers&#8221; use profanity while the elves do not. The other is George R. R. Martin&#8217;s overuse of f*bombs between two of his characters in a fantasy world setting.</p>
<p>Martin&#8217;s use in the fourth book in his <i>Game of Thrones</i> series really bugged me (but not in a puritan sense), while Wen&#8217;s in her <i>Tinker</i> duology seemed to fit right into her world.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brian Rathbone</title>
		<link>http://www.pensandswords.com/2008/09/30/modern-idioms-in-fantasy-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-30084</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Rathbone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 01:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensandswords.com/?p=523#comment-30084</guid>
		<description>I feel there are times when harsh words are appropriate in dialog, but I find myself using terms that relate to my world and are not generally considered foul in our world. It can be a challenge to achieve this effect in a natural and believable fashion, but I think it broadens the appeal and is worth the effort.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Brian Rathbone&#180;s last blog post was &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.brianrathbone.com/wordpress/2008/07/20/the-legend-of-chickchick/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Legend of ChickChick&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel there are times when harsh words are appropriate in dialog, but I find myself using terms that relate to my world and are not generally considered foul in our world. It can be a challenge to achieve this effect in a natural and believable fashion, but I think it broadens the appeal and is worth the effort.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Brian Rathbone&#180;s last blog post was <a href="http://www.brianrathbone.com/wordpress/2008/07/20/the-legend-of-chickchick/" rel="nofollow">The Legend of ChickChick</a></em></abbr></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ravyn</title>
		<link>http://www.pensandswords.com/2008/09/30/modern-idioms-in-fantasy-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-30020</link>
		<dc:creator>Ravyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensandswords.com/?p=523#comment-30020</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not too fond of swear words myself, though that&#039;s mainly because I follow an old Flanders and Swann quote:  &quot;If we use these words all the time, we won&#039;t have anything left for special occasions!&quot;  Besides, if you&#039;ve got a culture with different taboos, they just aren&#039;t going to work as well.

One thing I tend to do is try to draw my curses from the culture around me--like your example of the blasphemies.  I haven&#039;t done much novel-strength worldbuilding recently, just gaming in someone else&#039;s, but I have a tendency to slip things that seem to make sense into the idiom (describing someone flying into a temper using the adjectival form of a demon variety, for instance, or making references to a known family with a bit of a Reputation).  It seems to get the world across pretty well.

(Speaking of common anachronisms, ok is more recent than most people think it is, and don&#039;t get me started on celebrating birthdays The Way We&#039;re Used To.  The Hall family still owns the copyright on that song!)

....now I want to crack my mother&#039;s old linguistics books and go at this properly.  Thanks for the inspiration!

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Ravyn&#180;s last blog post was &lt;a href=&quot;http://exchangeofrealities.today.com/2008/10/03/and-rising-from-the-ashes/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;….and Rising from the Ashes&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not too fond of swear words myself, though that&#8217;s mainly because I follow an old Flanders and Swann quote:  &#8220;If we use these words all the time, we won&#8217;t have anything left for special occasions!&#8221;  Besides, if you&#8217;ve got a culture with different taboos, they just aren&#8217;t going to work as well.</p>
<p>One thing I tend to do is try to draw my curses from the culture around me&#8211;like your example of the blasphemies.  I haven&#8217;t done much novel-strength worldbuilding recently, just gaming in someone else&#8217;s, but I have a tendency to slip things that seem to make sense into the idiom (describing someone flying into a temper using the adjectival form of a demon variety, for instance, or making references to a known family with a bit of a Reputation).  It seems to get the world across pretty well.</p>
<p>(Speaking of common anachronisms, ok is more recent than most people think it is, and don&#8217;t get me started on celebrating birthdays The Way We&#8217;re Used To.  The Hall family still owns the copyright on that song!)</p>
<p>&#8230;.now I want to crack my mother&#8217;s old linguistics books and go at this properly.  Thanks for the inspiration!</p>
<p><abbr><em>Ravyn&#180;s last blog post was <a href="http://exchangeofrealities.today.com/2008/10/03/and-rising-from-the-ashes/" rel="nofollow">….and Rising from the Ashes</a></em></abbr></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alex Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.pensandswords.com/2008/09/30/modern-idioms-in-fantasy-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-29671</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 04:44:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensandswords.com/?p=523#comment-29671</guid>
		<description>Interesting post. I agree to a certain extent. Often times it seems the words are used for shock value, and instead of contributing to the flow of the scene, they jar the mind into the current reality and out of the story. I &lt;i&gt;have&lt;/i&gt; read some authors who have so skillfully fashioned a character that every word sounded authentic... but I can&#039;t recall a specific fantasy author who used swearing in an accomplished fashion:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post. I agree to a certain extent. Often times it seems the words are used for shock value, and instead of contributing to the flow of the scene, they jar the mind into the current reality and out of the story. I <i>have</i> read some authors who have so skillfully fashioned a character that every word sounded authentic&#8230; but I can&#8217;t recall a specific fantasy author who used swearing in an accomplished fashion:)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jamie Grove - How Not To Write</title>
		<link>http://www.pensandswords.com/2008/09/30/modern-idioms-in-fantasy-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-29418</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie Grove - How Not To Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensandswords.com/?p=523#comment-29418</guid>
		<description>I had to laugh while reading this post, Kameron.  I wrote a comedic fantasy story that takes place in a world that is shifting from our reality to a fantasy world.  Amid all the strangeness, there&#039;s plenty of profanity to go around.  That said, I agreed with your general point about striking that sort of stuff from true fantasy, not experimental works like mine.  

Of course, the paradox between both positions is what made me laugh. :)

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Jamie Grove - How Not To Write&#180;s last blog post was &lt;a href=&quot;http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/HowNotToWrite/~3/402824340/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;How to Deal with Being Afraid of Your Writing&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had to laugh while reading this post, Kameron.  I wrote a comedic fantasy story that takes place in a world that is shifting from our reality to a fantasy world.  Amid all the strangeness, there&#8217;s plenty of profanity to go around.  That said, I agreed with your general point about striking that sort of stuff from true fantasy, not experimental works like mine.  </p>
<p>Of course, the paradox between both positions is what made me laugh. <img src='http://www.pensandswords.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><abbr><em>Jamie Grove &#8211; How Not To Write&#180;s last blog post was <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/HowNotToWrite/~3/402824340/" rel="nofollow">How to Deal with Being Afraid of Your Writing</a></em></abbr></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kameron</title>
		<link>http://www.pensandswords.com/2008/09/30/modern-idioms-in-fantasy-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-29353</link>
		<dc:creator>Kameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensandswords.com/?p=523#comment-29353</guid>
		<description>Mike, I discovered how old some of those words were when researching this post. It&#039;s interesting to note that while they were considered vulgar back then, they were used to describe specific things (intercourse, bowel movements, etc.) rather than being general expletives. And, they weren&#039;t used in writing, hence the difficulty of tracking their exact origins. Not to mention that today&#039;s writers use the modern spellings rather than those contemporary to the historical use.

Furthermore, it&#039;s only been in the last 20 years that I&#039;ve seen them creep into fantasy fiction. I&#039;ll admit my reading of the genre isn&#039;t exhaustive, but I get the feeling their use is more an influence of modern culture than an attempt to recreate that medieval atmosphere.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Kameron&#180;s last blog post was &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kameronmf.com/2008/09/29/another-random-meme/?PHPSESSID=529ea6599cd914ae73c649393faab51d&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Another random meme&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, I discovered how old some of those words were when researching this post. It&#8217;s interesting to note that while they were considered vulgar back then, they were used to describe specific things (intercourse, bowel movements, etc.) rather than being general expletives. And, they weren&#8217;t used in writing, hence the difficulty of tracking their exact origins. Not to mention that today&#8217;s writers use the modern spellings rather than those contemporary to the historical use.</p>
<p>Furthermore, it&#8217;s only been in the last 20 years that I&#8217;ve seen them creep into fantasy fiction. I&#8217;ll admit my reading of the genre isn&#8217;t exhaustive, but I get the feeling their use is more an influence of modern culture than an attempt to recreate that medieval atmosphere.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Kameron&#180;s last blog post was <a href="http://www.kameronmf.com/2008/09/29/another-random-meme/?PHPSESSID=529ea6599cd914ae73c649393faab51d" rel="nofollow">Another random meme</a></em></abbr></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.pensandswords.com/2008/09/30/modern-idioms-in-fantasy-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-29351</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensandswords.com/?p=523#comment-29351</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t think of any examples myself, but I&#039;m pretty well aligned with your thoughts on the subject, Kam.  I don&#039;t swear in real life, so why should I in writing?  But what&#039;s strange is...I definitely find myself wanting to add it.

But I think it should be used only sparingly, to give those words power.

Still, in fantasy, it&#039;s best to create new swears, right?  Problem is, they just won&#039;t resonate with the reader the way real world curses do.  We have a natural association with these words, and in writing they have power.

It&#039;s an interesting discussion point, for sure.  But as Mike says, it&#039;s all about context.  There should be no blanket &quot;yes&quot; or &quot;no&quot; when it comes to their use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t think of any examples myself, but I&#8217;m pretty well aligned with your thoughts on the subject, Kam.  I don&#8217;t swear in real life, so why should I in writing?  But what&#8217;s strange is&#8230;I definitely find myself wanting to add it.</p>
<p>But I think it should be used only sparingly, to give those words power.</p>
<p>Still, in fantasy, it&#8217;s best to create new swears, right?  Problem is, they just won&#8217;t resonate with the reader the way real world curses do.  We have a natural association with these words, and in writing they have power.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s an interesting discussion point, for sure.  But as Mike says, it&#8217;s all about context.  There should be no blanket &#8220;yes&#8221; or &#8220;no&#8221; when it comes to their use.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.pensandswords.com/2008/09/30/modern-idioms-in-fantasy-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-29343</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 14:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensandswords.com/?p=523#comment-29343</guid>
		<description>I guess I don&#039;t have much of a problem with swear words per se.  (Probably because I tend to use them more than I should.)  

The infamous &quot;F Word&quot;, for example, has been around in print since the 15th century, and has probably been used for even longer.  Most modern vulgarities really aren&#039;t all, well, modern.

I&#039;ve never seen using such language as a problem in fantasy works, particular if the fantasy is based on Dark Ages/Renaissance/Age of Enlightenment-styled European culture.  

My issue with vulgar language in factasy fiction revolves more around whether or not it seems out of place.  If the character seems like the sort to swear and to use coarse language, then I have no problem if that character drops the F-bomb.  If the use is gratuitous - meaning if it&#039;s used constantly, or by characters who seem unlikely to use coarse language - then it&#039;s a problem.  Context would be my main guideline for using such language.

The fantasy novel I&#039;m currently developing will probably have its fair share of explicit sex, language, and gory violence, much like George R.R. Martin&#039;s &quot;A Game of Thrones&quot;.  I think, however, it&#039;s all appropriate to the story.  If it was merely gratuitous, I wouldn&#039;t include it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I don&#8217;t have much of a problem with swear words per se.  (Probably because I tend to use them more than I should.)  </p>
<p>The infamous &#8220;F Word&#8221;, for example, has been around in print since the 15th century, and has probably been used for even longer.  Most modern vulgarities really aren&#8217;t all, well, modern.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never seen using such language as a problem in fantasy works, particular if the fantasy is based on Dark Ages/Renaissance/Age of Enlightenment-styled European culture.  </p>
<p>My issue with vulgar language in factasy fiction revolves more around whether or not it seems out of place.  If the character seems like the sort to swear and to use coarse language, then I have no problem if that character drops the F-bomb.  If the use is gratuitous &#8211; meaning if it&#8217;s used constantly, or by characters who seem unlikely to use coarse language &#8211; then it&#8217;s a problem.  Context would be my main guideline for using such language.</p>
<p>The fantasy novel I&#8217;m currently developing will probably have its fair share of explicit sex, language, and gory violence, much like George R.R. Martin&#8217;s &#8220;A Game of Thrones&#8221;.  I think, however, it&#8217;s all appropriate to the story.  If it was merely gratuitous, I wouldn&#8217;t include it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

